First question from floor: Should the allegations of Andrew Wilkie, Ms Errey and Col Lance Collins be examined in the interest of Australia’s national security? Isn’t a Royal Commission which examines the veracity of the claims of the whistleblowers the only way of establishing the truth of their claims? (Question from Mervyn Murchie)

Kevin Rudd (2); Kerry Nettle; Aden Ridgeway (2); Kevin Rudd (3)

Kevin Rudd: Yes, and yes.

Aden Ridgeway: No, I think it goes without saying that a Royal Commission is needed to uncover the truth, and to make sure that these particular individuals that I think have put their own future at risk, are given a way of being able to express their views, get the facts on the record, and be supported and protected in the process. Because you can guarantee that while the Prime Minister says that he does at the moment respect their views, next week it's going to be very different.

Marise Payne: I think that one of the important aspects of this process is that there are already Committees within the Parliamentary system which do look at these issues. I'm currently participating in one myself which has a very broad reach in terms of military justice per se, and we'll be taking up some of the concerns that have been raised, particularly where they relate to Aden's exact reference. The other is that some of these have already been examined to the Intelligence Services Committee as it's already defined. I understand that there are people here who don't think that is a satisfactory approach, but it has provided some forma; examination of the process, and I think that is important.

Kevin Rudd: ... coming back to steal back 40 seconds ... Marise mentioned Parliamentary Committees - the Parliamentary Inquiry into prewar intelligence on Iraq was chaired by the Liberals, and dominated by Liberals. It found that - yeah, we were there too, I'm just saying it found that on twelve separate occasions, teh Howard Government exaggerated prewar intellige nce on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. It further found that there was an emerging problem in terms of 'policy-driven analysis', that is, the intelligence community seeking to anticipate what they believed the government wanted. Now, that is a Parliamentary Inquiry not controlled by us, the dreaded socialists, but by them, the dreaded capitalists. All I'm saying is, that was prior to what we had on Keelty, that is Keelty basically bucking the government's public line that our involvement in Iraq had no impact whatsoever on Australia as a terrorist target, prior to the Leeuwincamp affair, prior to the Collins affair, prior to the Toohey affair, prior to the Tracey affair, prior to Uncle Tom Cobleigh affair - look, something stinks, and that's why a Commission of Inquiry with the powers of a Royal Commission is necessary.

Kerry Nettle: We don't just need a Royal Commission into our intelligence services, it needs to have broad enough terms of reference to be able to look in, what I believe are the most important points, which is the government use of intelligence information they are given. Because all of the inquiries that we have had to date through Parliamentary Committees have not had that capacity, to be able to ensure that government representatives who made the decision, based on advice that they received, but who mad ethe decision, have to answer and be involved in those inquiries about the decisions they made, based on the information that they received.

Aden Ridgeway: I just wanted to correct the record a little, to say that the inquiries that are occurring were decided to be held behind closed doors by the government and with the support of the ALP. Let's be very clear about that. Can I also say that, when it came to supporting a recommendation to have an equivalent inquiry to what was happening in the UK and the US, the ALP did not support that, nor did the government, so let's be clear about truth.

Kevin Rudd: Aden's a good guy. The reason for that was that we would not have been able to obtain the access to classified information that we did through the use of the Joint Intelligence Committee of Parliament, which is comprised of Liberal and Labor members, in the way in which we were able to. And as a consequence, we therefore had through that committee high levels of access to the intelligence material which the government relied upon for its decision to go to war. And it is on the basis of access to that, that you have a unanimous report, saying that there were twelve occasions on which the government exaggerated the prewar intelligence on Iraq. I don't think that's a bad outcome, myself. It provides the foundation, now, for asking fundamentally of the government why they now have objections to a fully public Commission of Inquiry with the powers of a Royal Commission to examine the entire gamut of these concerns, including the ones rightly touched on by Kerry, that is the government's selective use of intelligence on the war.

Shelley Reys: Our final question very quickly ...

© NSPD 2004. Last modified 09/05/04.