NSPD Minutes Post Forum 2

Minutes of the meetings of the joint organising committee for forum 1 and forum 2 are also posted on this site - maybe useful hints for people hoping to repeat the experience embedded in these!

Weekly meeting minutes and accounts from the many meetings of the North Shore Against War group that preceded NSPD are also posted on this site.

Jim Wilks: Before his sudden death in the middle of the 2004 election campaign, Jim Wilks was a stalwart regular at meetings, a tireless worker in keeping the organisation going, a major source of ideas (in particular in producing the original drafts of the Charter for Democracy), and a fun bloke to have around at socials and fundraisers. We still miss him.

Meetings: 20 June 2004 ; 11 July 2004; 15 August 2004; 5 September 2004; 12 September 2004;
19 September 2004; 26 September 2004; 28 November 2004; 23 January 2005; 13 February 2005;
Accounts

Meeting 13/3/5

Present: Lindsay, Sue, Lynette, Mario, Daphne, Frennie, Tina, David
Apologies: Brendan, Lyn

[David to check whether Jane Aird, who came to the Politics in the Pub evening, was on the distribution for the organisers – which she wasn’t, apologies to Jane.]
Thanks to Frennie for hosting

Venue: The RSL had now sent a formal rejection letter, which gives no reasons other than “we do this for a lot of people already”. Agreed to strongly challenge this under the terms of the DA: Tina to consult with Mosman Council and Denise W on how best to go about that.

Alternatives: Brendan had discussed with Susan Kennett using North Sydney Community Centre, which could be available on Fridays: agreed that being in a building site plus lack of refreshments etc made this less than ideal – though once the new centre is open may be good. Other alternatives suggested: Mosman Art Gallery, Hutley Hall, Boronia House.

Speakers: Not worth pursuing further until we have venue sorted. Politics in the Pub organisers have confirmed are happy to give contacts from their speaker list and support .

Balance: Sue began a discussion on what the purpose of the proposed meetings was: consensus was that it was not just to inform and educate those on our side, but also to reach out to those who disagree with us. On that basis, we would sometimes need to vary or add to the Politics in the Pub panels to add balancing views. Agreed also that we’d want to cover wider social justice and other current issues, not just related to peace and democracy.

Writing: This led on top an expressed need to write in support for small ‘l’ liberals when they speak up on the right side – eg Malcolm Turnbull on tax. It might make sense to get stuff out to people on what’s happening and what letters etc need writing, maybe as a monthly newsletter, where each item is a short intro plus link to greater detail on the website. David said that was technically easy to do, provided that others can generate content.

Palm Sunday: logistics of getting to Parramatta: David to research and put out detail:
[Trains from North Sydney to Parramatta very regular, even on Sunday. Suggest we all meet at North Sydney station to catch the 12:51 – gets to Parramatta at 1.32, plenty of time to walk to Prince Alfred Park for 2pm
(there’ll be entertainment for a while before the start if we’re early)
Trains back are at 7, 21, 37 and 51 mins past the hour, 42 min journey]

Next Meeting: April 17th 7:30pm at Tina’s, 1c Mistral Avenue, Mosman

Meeting 13/2/5

Present: Daphne, Frennie, Lindsay, Sue, David, Brendan, Tina, Lyn
Apologies: Lynette, Mario, Peter, Sally

Mamdouh Habib: we started by watching the 60 Minutes interview and discussing that. It is clear that he could not be a speaker at a discussion meeting.

Future discussion meetings: Brendan circulated the Politics in the Pub program for the first half of 2005. It was felt that there are a number of discussions on that program which it might be useful to repeat for a North Shore audience. Given the very considerable logistics of getting this venture off the ground, it was suggested that we might be able to reduce our initial organisational load by piggybacking on some of their organisation: by approaching some of the speakers in the current PitP program to ask them if they’d be prepared to repeat the experience on the North Shore a week or two after their PitP session.

If there is no objection from PitP, the sessions it has been suggested that we might repeat are:

Australian Foreign Policy & the US: Mike McKinley and Alison Bronowski
New Religious Right: Phil Glendinning and David Millikan
Media and Consent: Wendy Bacon and Mark Davis
Terrorism in the region: Sally Neighbour and Geoff Hawker

Another suggestion for talk: “is torture ever acceptable?”: Sue to contact St James Ethics Centre for possible speakers.

David to check with PitP that they have no objection, and to seek contact details for those we don't already have contact with. Brendan can contact Mark Davis; Frennie - Phil Glendinning; Tina - David Millikan.

Venue: Lindsay had checked re St Luke's hall: only available Fridays at $25 per night - would conflict with PitP. Tina continuing negotiations with Mosman RSl, with support form Denise Wilton.

What do we call it? Suggestion include: Speaking Out; Talk Change; Where Now Australia? - other suggestions to be e-mailed to David for circulation.

AFTINET: subscription is up for renewal: given state of finances, and no of other organisations we agree with that we aren't affiliated to, decided not to renew.

Finances: Very limited funds left, plus some bills coming up for website renewals etc. We will need a few hundred dollars at least to advertise the meetings. After some discussion, agreed to ask members for a subscription of $10 or $20 - provided that we wouldn't take people of the mailing list for not paying.

Next Meeting: Friday 25 February at/after Politics in the Pub, Gaelic Club, near Central.

Meeting 23/1/5

Present: Daphne, Frennie, Lindsay, Sue, David, Peter, Sally, Brendan, Tina
Apologies: Lynette, Mario, Lyn

Where next?: Brendan talked about the loss of Andrew, Jim and Serena and the effects on the group, and also handed out some points for discussion. Some of the points made in that discussion:
Sue said she would like the group to be more decentralised and to take less responsibility.
Frennie feels angry about the situation re Habib and Iraq. Need to channel that anger into something positive.
Tina: public meetings will expand our base.
Lindsay: Why don't more people feel as we do about things? Great value of having these meetings to know we're not alone. Anything we do has to be very well organised.
Daphne: The world situation is very upsetting. We feel overwhelmed. Need to concentrate on small projects and specific aims that we can achieve, rather than the big things.
David: Our task is to not accept that it's all over. Our group can coordinate things like letter-writing, spreading information, and generally keeping the debate open.
Peter: Education is an important role for us
Sally: Group needs to be more open.

Public meetings: Tina to write to the Mosman RSL board, asking for regular monday slot in March - June and Sept - November, 7:30-9:30. David has already spoken to "Politics in the Pub" organisers. Some suggestions for meeting topics: ask Mamdouh Habib to speak: consult groups like AFTINET on what issues are coming up in their area: maybe forum on petrol prices (an example of a topic where the education on how the world really works can be slid in to an informative discussion.

Everyone to think for next time about 1) possible topics and speakers, and 2) what we might title the overall series.

Next meeting: Sunday 13 February, possibly at the Mosman RSL to check on venue, 7pm, meet in bar and maybe over meal.

Meeting 28/11/4

Present: Daphne, Lynette, Frennie, Mario, Lindsay, Sue, David, Peter, Brendan, Tina, Lyn
Apologies: Sally, Vacy

Democracy:
* The Charter needs a preamble to explain context.
* Lynette gave news of important human rights issues potentially being downgraded in importance in new curriculum for schools – agree to write in protest to the Board of studies (PS also raised this issue at the subsequent Sydney Peace and Justice Coalition meeting)
* Brendan introduced discussion of direct democracy proposals previously circulated
Guantanamo: Lindsay raise ongoing issues related to Australians detained without trial by the US.

Where next?
We had a lengthy discussion around questions of how we work on our aims:
* Is lobbying part of what we do?
* How do we best maintain links with others of like mind?
* How do we address religious and other fundamentalism and impacts on society?
* How do we educate those whose heart is in the right place but who “don’t yet agree with us”?
* Should we be holding more regular (eg monthly) debates on key issues? - like ‘Politics in the Pub’ but local flavour and more aimed at small ‘l’ liberals
It was agreed that a regular program at the Mosman RSL might be a good start: for further discussion at next meeting: please bring ideas!

Next meeting: Sunday 23 Jan at 7.30

Meeting/rehearsal 26/9/4

Present: Sue, David, Brendan, Jim, Lyn, Tina (+ Anjelica!), Peter, Sally, Frennie, Lindsay, Serena, + volunteers: Nance, Peter, Jan, Gail, Stephen, Dale, Stefania, Peter, Karen
Apologies: Mario, Vera, Judith, Helen

We went over the proposed route and how to do it on the day!

Our route for the action is to show the slogans at sites around the north shore and CBD as follows:

Meet under Milson's Point station (Kirribilli side) 8am sharp
Outside Kirribilli House (around 8.30am):
On ferry to Circular Quay (arrive CQ 8:58am):
On Opera House steps and side (9:15am-9:30am):
Martin Place (10pm),
ferry to Manly (dep CQ 11am):
Manly Corso (11:30am).

Progress between sites will be in groups to keep the words visible. Three whistles is the signal to turn around!

Tina reported on TV news contacts: we will press release early in the week, and 'phone the newsrooms to check receipt, and to remind on Thursday and again at 7am Friday. Local papers already informed: seek meetings with editors of Mosman Daily and Manly Daily to re-inforce.

Meeting 19/9/4

Present: Sue, David, Brendan, Jim, Lyn
Apologies: Tina, Peter, Sally, Mario, Frennie, Lindsay

TBDO:
Leaflet: some further detailed revisions: print 2002 and also hand out at Mosman market etc & offer to Not Happy John Campaign and others.
T-shirts: cheapest from Crows Nest Discount Store (thank you, Tina). Need 20 for letters + several for handers-out etc. David & Brendan to produce Thursday 23rd pm (any other expert ironers welcome!). Reconfirmed that slogans arranged so that we can get the second slogan with a quick spin on the spot – recognised that this means anyone standing behind us gets the message that TUOD RAWOHST NUOCH TURT, but can’t be helped.
Route/timing: David & Brendan to confirm detail: tentative: 8am Milsons Point, 8:30 Kirribilli House,
8:52 ferry => Circular Quay, 9.15 Opera House, 10am Martin Place, 11am ferry => Manly, 11.30 Manly Corso.
Publicity: Tina, David & Peter to finalise press release & contacts
Volunteers: asked to confirm and come to practise/planning meeting next week – about half already confirmed.
Oct 3 End the Lies demo: also take t-shirts to that

Film Night: the “Time to go John” films will be shown at Manly Community Centre on Tues Oct 5th, 7:30pm

Charter for Democracy: signatures slowed down and contributions very slow (only 4 people sent $20 each so far), so will not happen before election. Will need to revisit various ways of getting this going after the election. David had spoken to ca 30 people at the Sydney Social Forum on the subject, and David/Sue distributed at the Mosman RSL Not Happy John meeting and the Carmen Lawrence talk at North Sydney. Agreed need to have physical sign-up capability as well as website.

Sydney Peace & Justice Coalition election poster: ask Peter Murphy to bring copies to next meeting – let David know how many needed. A4 pdf downloadable from http://www.nswpeace.org/downloads/1095403383_9970.html

Next meeting: 26 Sept: including rehearsal/planning meeting with volunteers
After that: post election wake/celebration, afternoon of Oct 10th: Chinamans Beach if fine, 8 Bay St if wet

Meeting 12/9/4

Present: Sue, David, Tina, Jim, Peter, Sally, Lyn, Lindsay
Apologies: Brendan, Frennie

We broke up into two groups to discuss details of the event on 1 October:
Sue, Lyn, Lindsay and Jim discussed what needed to be on a handout for the day: a draft based on that discussion is attached. Please send in comments / proposed amendments before next Sunday, so we can finalise then for printing.
David, Tina, Peter and Sally discussed t-shirts, route and publicity:
T-shirts: having looked at print quotes etc, we decided to just buy blank white shirts and print on them with iron-on transfers (cost $3.40 each): FED LIES DEMOCRACY DIES on the front and TRUTH COUNTS HOWARD OUT on the back – laid out so each person just turns on the spot to get the second slogan (rather than having to wheel the whole group). (number the shirts and the people!!).
Route: tentative: meet Milsons Point, Kirribilli House: ferry to Circular Quay: Opera House, Martin Place, ferry to Manly: Manly Corso. Peter and David to check timings; spacing for 20 people on ferry / sides of Opera House etc; places for taking photos. Need to mail the confirmed program to volunteers and get them to recommit / come to a practice session.
Publicity: our media list from the forums is light on TV people: need to ring the main TV stations and find the right people. Press and TV release based on “living slogan” theme ca Wednesday 29 Sep – the previous week for the four local papers (Manly Daily, Mosman Daily, North Shore Times, Sydney Weekly Courier). Get media list from John Valder’s NHJ campaign.

Proposed Film Night “Time to Go John”: discussed proposal from HT Lee and others: decided 1: too much to do to organise at same time as organisation of event: 2: problematic to not be able to see the film ahead of time to check quality (and with earliest delivery date of DVD being end September, high risk that there is no film at all on the night).

Charter: Jim raised problem with references to Labor and Democrat sites, but not other parties, on the main web page: [added Liberal and Green references and moved from front page to “background reading” page]

Hicks / Habib: Lindsay had new reply from DFAT on behalf of Downer on subject: summarised it said that Govt was committed to due process, but there was a problem in that there is no doubt that Hicks and Habib haven’t committed any offence they can be prosecuted for under Australian law, so it’s better to leave them in a country that doesn’t have this worry.

Next meeting: 19 Sept

Meeting 5/9/4

Present: Sue, David, Mario, Lyn, Peter, Sally, Susy, Jim, Frennie, Lindsay, + Mike and John from Manly Against War: Apologies: Brendan, Tina, Denise Wilton

Truth’s Big Day Out: we had to winnow down from the 70+ slogans suggested to one: this took a while! We finally came down to a vote between Democracy Dies Fed Lies and Truth Counts Howard Out, with a clear majority for the latter.
We have a good number of volunteers for the day, plus some from the Manly group.
Sophie had investigated Macquarie Uni t-shirt printing facilities: are essentially DIY, with a charge of $15 per silk screen (of which we’d need 18 with this slo gan) plus t-shirt costs. David to investigate costs from the printers in Byron who did the North Shore Against The War t-shirts for an all-up $7.50 per shirt.
Agreed to have some additional t-shirts printed for sale with LIES (Authorised by Commonwealth Government, Canberra) on the front.
Agreed to meet next Sunday and break up into small groups to finalise details on: t-shirts; publicity; route; leaflets for handing out alongside action.

Charter for Democracy: 46 signatures in first week, including some from each major state, so message is getting around. We have been asked to contribute to a workshop on fixing democracy at the Sydney Social Forum, 17-19 Sept at UTS: David to do that. http://www.sydneysocialforum.org/

Hicks/Habib: Lindsay had received an excellent supportive reply from Kevin Rudd on the issue.

Forthcoming Events:
Margo Kingston / Mike Hanley at Mosman RSL on Sept 6th, 7pm
Irene Khan, Secretary General, Amnesty International, at AGSM on Sept 8th 7.30-9.30 am (including breakfast) AGSM City Campus, Level 6, 1 O’Connell Street, Sydney, To register, call 9931 9500 and leave your name and details
Carmen Lawrence on Women in Politics at North Sydney Council (Hutley Hall) on Sept 9th at 7.30pm
Breakfast in aid of Not Happy John Campaign, at Beaches in Balmoral, 25 Sept, cost $200: contact Trish 9922 7248 / 0402 306261

Date of Next Meeting: Agreed to meet every Sunday until after the election.

Meeting 15/8/4

Present: David, Sue, Peter, Sally, Sophie, Brendan, Frennie, Jim, Susy, Tina, Lindsay
Apologies: Linda, Mario

Crunch Time: We are mentioned as a case study in another new book: Crunch Time, by Mike Hanley and Adrian Monck.

“Not Happy John” - John Valder’s campaign in Bennelong: we have received an appeal for support from John for this campaign, which is aimed at ousting John Howard in particular. It does not support any particular candidate against him (though mentions the obvious thought that Andrew Wilkie for the Greens and Nicole Campbell for the ALP are the key ones). It does also say that John V himself would like the Coalition to be re-elected, but without Howard. We decided not to support the campaign as an organisation (in any case we don’t have any funds for that right now), but that we would e-mail all our supporters with the information and invite them to consider support.

The Election generally:
noted that on the day itself many of us would be committed and active for our respective political parties locally (or in Bennelong!), and some others would be working in the Sydney marginals (Parramatta, Lindsay, Dobell).
As a non-party political group, is there something we can do in the run-up to the day that is different and deals with our specific concerns?
We decided we should work on the idea of big slogans on t-shirts (one letter per shirt) for (say) the Friday and Sunday the weekend before the election: we then need a plan for doing it well: places, people, media – and a really good slogan of 25 letters or less!
also need to draft a leaflet to hand out at that time
ACTIONS
Sophie to check on possibility of getting shirts printed at Uni
everyone to think of a slogan and send in
email supporters to ask for volunteers to take part.

Our AIMS: draft as circulated agreed amended as:
... “non-party-political” ...
remove “inter alia”
replace “the case for war” with “the case for invasion of Iraq”
Place the revised aims prominently on website.

The Charter for Democracy: a number of comments and proposed amendments had been received: we discussed them as follows:
1. “Need for parliamentary vote before going to war / remove ability for PM to go to war without vote” (two comments): agreed to add
2. “The ability, through petition, for citizens to bring a public referendum to the ballot that, when passed, must be introduced into law. It will force a much higher degree of accountability and responsibility within both the electorate and the representatives that serve them. And gives people direct influence over the legislation that governs them.” A difficult one, this – we decided that although a number of us agree with the idea in general, the purpose of the Charter is primarily to re-establish the democratic rights we believe we should already have, not to extend them further.
3. “The media must be free to run newsworthy, factual stories without intimidation by any government” : partially covered already, may revise wording
4. “A bill of rights covering citizens' human rights” : Again, although we mostly agree the need for this, the Charter is about how our democracy works, and how decisions on laws like a Bill of Rights are made, not about specific laws that might be needed.
5. “All corporate funding of political parties be terminated”: discussed American experience of difficulty (impossibility?) of making this work and decided on balance against inclusion.
Need to write to people who suggested these with the outcome. Then ask all our supporters to sign the Charter, with the aim of going after that to public figures for endorsement.

Fundraising:
Jim had been asked to raise the possibility of endorsing a mortgage broker to our members in return for reward if any take offer up: rejected.
Tina had discussed with Mosman RSL possible use of their function rooms as a community group: they would need a case to be put to their board.
Discussed possible fundraising function eg brunch / cocktail party with raffles, auctions etc ...

Hicks/Habib: Lindsay had written to Abbott about Australia’s failure to defend its citizens and had a very odd reply from Philip Ruddock: agreed to associate the group with sending this on to Kevin Rudd asking for comment and ALP repsonse.

Date of Next Meeting: 5 September

Meeting 11/7/4

Present: David, Mario, Frennie, Brendan, Tina, Lindsay, Peter, Sally
Apologies: Sue, Jim, Lyn

Aims and Objectives: Input circulated from David, Jim and Brendan: agreed to base on Brendan’s draft, with some specifics from the other pieces incorporated: David to circulate redraft on that basis (see end of these minutes).

What to do next?: lots of different points put: this is just some of them:
Mario: the prime need is to impact on the election, which boils down to “how can we influence voters in marginal seats?”
[NB: the only nearby Coalition marginals are Parrammatta and Lindsay in west Sydney, and Dobell (Gosford etc)]
Frennie: need to work at polling booths on election day in marginal seats:
Frennie: also need to write to journalists p articularly in the Telegraph & Sun-Herald on their views
Tina: one of strengths is being North Shore – it has impact on swaying some people that even on the NS there are opponents to what Howard and his government have done
David: if we want to affect more than just the few people we talk to face-to-face, the key is to do things that get media coverage
Lindsay: if we had pamphlets of facts/lies as proposed last meeting, would need to distribute on the Saturday(s) before the election
Frennie: we also need to talk about the economy as well
Sue’s idea (circulated before meeting): Idea:

For the group to decide on a suitable slogan such as ‘Secrets and Lies Destroy Democracy’
For 30 people (or sufficient) to each wear a T-shirt with one letter of this emblazoned on the front and possibly a placard with the same.
For these people to get onto a Sydney ferry and make this slogan along one side of it – to take the ferry to circular quay and do the same around the opera house (maybe other ferries or venues)
For an additional 5/6 people to give out leaflets that we write saying just what secrets and lies we are talking about
For us to contact all media
To happen possibly the day before the election (or the Friday and Saturday prior)

People agreed in principle with the idea, though some debate on what the slogan should be: also could appear at meetings etc: could we manage multiple groups, maybe with smaller versions for eg Town Hall station?

Future Forums: still have lots of people wanting forum on role of media (say Margo K / Alan Ramsey / Paul Sheehan / Miranda Devine ?)
Could maybe hold smaller (2-speaker?) forum more regularly qua Politics in the Pub, eg monthly? Tina to investigate Mosman RSL as potential venue.
David reported approach from Oxfam re possibly running workshops at their national conference in October – possibly on theme of the impact of NGOs on democratic process.

Fundraising: check out possibility of showing “The Tale of Two Alis” followed by tea/coffee/wine and informal discussion

Date of Next Meeting: 15 August unless election called earlier

AIMS: 2nd Draft:
North Shore Peace and Democracy is a secular, non-political voluntary association open to all people committed to peace, human rights and social justice. We are concerned about failures of accountability and democracy exposed (inter alia) by the manipulation of the case for war. We encourage our fellow citizens to take a stand for peace, international cooperation and the democratic process in Australia. As a local part of the global movement for peace and justice, we want to create a world of peaceful co-existence and respect for human values and human rights.
In order to achieve this, we will act at our local level with a commitment to: