Organising the Forum: Truth and Democracy: Casualties of War?

NSPD First meeting 1/6/3; Second meeting 6/7/3; Third meeting 20/7/3; Fourth meeting 3/8/3; Fifth meeting 17/8/3; Sixth meeting 31/8/3; Seventh meeting 14/9/3; Eighth meeting 21//9/3; Ninth meeting 5/10/3; Tenth meeting 12/10/3; Eleventh meeting 19/10/3 Accounts;

Weekly meeting minutes and accounts from the many meetings of the North Shore Against War group that preceded NSPD are also posted on this site.

Meetings following on from those recorded here are in two further sections: forum 2 organisation, and post forum 2

NSPD First Meeting: organising the Discussion Forum

Present: Frennie Beytagh, Vacy Vlazna, Mario Paletto, Sue Roffey, David Roffey, Lyn Macpherson, Tina Jackson, Lindsay Wood

Proposed Public Meeting:
Venue: Serena had investigated several places, and best combination of availability, capacity, localness is Mosman High School main hall – capacity 300, cost $25 per hour + $25 set-up cost. Is available whole weekend 26-28 September.
Mosman RS Club has room available on Monday nights to local community groups, but agreed is better to go for a Friday night at Mosman High.
ACTION: David to ask Serena to provisionally book Friday 26 September with school
People: Tony Abbott has again given his agreement in principle and has been asked about those dates, but has not come back to confirm.
ACTION: Lyn to recontact Abbot’s assistant to try to get firm commitment to Friday 26 September at 7.30pm
Peter Macdonald ha d also indicated interest in participation: ACTION: Tina to contact and try to get commitment for same date.
Others: Agreed ACTION: Lyn to contact Bob Brown,
Will contact other possible participants (eg Carmen Lawrence, Peter Garrett) after have some confirmations and firm date.
Chair: ACTION: Tina to contact Philip Adams / ABC re chairing plus possibility of radio broadcast.
Welcome to country: ACTION: Frennie to contact Metro Land Council
Agreed to promote meeting as joint meeting of all northern Sydney groups.

Mosman Market Sat 7 June: Possible stall people: Lyn, Emma, Damien??, Rachel??
Would like to have presence at least 10-12pm
Damien’s table + posters are in garage at 8 Bay!!

Further discussion on identity and purpose for the group:
Still feel need to broaden issues, and possibly aim to be umbrella group for wider issues at least for northern Sydney – feel there is power in local identity and presence. Recognise need not to duplicate or just be another fragmented group. Need to investigate further groups such as A Just Australia that cover some of same ground to see whether we could be part of them or vice versa. Still needs further thought!

Next meeting: Sunday 6 July 12-2pm 8 Bay Street.

Second meeting 6/7/3

Present:
NSAW/Mosman: Sue Roffey, David Roffey, Lyn Macpherson, Tina Jackson, Brendan Doyle, Serena Carmel, Frennie Beytagh, Peter Clayton, Lindsay Wood
Pennant Hills: Mike Hartnell
Ku-ring-gai: Sylvia Harmon, Paul Harmon
Manly: Mario Paletto
Pittwater: Susy Benson, Beth Jessup
Lismore: John Jessup

Proposed Discussion Forum:
Lyn reported that (after several changes of date), Tony Abbott has now agreed to 20 October as a date, Tina had got agreement from Peter Macdonald to that date, and Serena has details on possible venues.
Brendan has approached Bob Brown, and Serena had tentative agreement from Carmen Lawrence (but for a different date).

We had a lengthy discussion on other possible speakers.
People mentioned included Peter Garratt, Jillian Skinner, Tom Kenneally, Sister Susan Connolly, Julia Gillard, Wendy Bacon, Genia McCaffery.
As input to that discussion, we talked about whether this was a local or a national forum, the need for at least one speaker to be a woman, and the need for a balance of views (though we didn’t get as far as balancing pro and anti-war numbers!)
Recognised that if we get the ABC involved, it is inevitably national, plus they will want some input, and probably want to choose a chair/facilitator.

Outcome/Actions:
Beth and Susy to approach Tom Kenneally
Frennie to approach Peter Garratt as backup
Serena to get back to Carmen Lawrence
Mike to approach Julia Gillard, Tina to approach Wendy Bacon as backups
(View was that it is OK to go to backup people saying “ we are approaching a number of people and can you let us know if you could make this date”)
Mike to approach ABC with proposal (his e-mail doing that follows this note)

Venue: Possibilities: Mosman RS Club, Mosman Art Gallery, Independent Theatre (N. Sydney) - they’d want $810, but Genia McCaffery is pursuing getting that down, Dougherty Centre at Chatswood.
Given the organisation of the forum as a joint event for the groups represented, the Chatswood venue is probably easiest / most central

Format: preferred format is a discussion in response to pre-supplied questions, with facilitator ensuring that al points of view get put, speakers get a chance to reply to points if necessary, and there is some chance for audience participation at the end of each discussion.

What to call it: lots of ideas:
Democracy: the US Agenda
Peace & Democracy Forum
Democracy – is it finished? (the Aftermath of War)
Is Truth a casualty?
Truth is the first casualty of war, Democracy the second – where next?
Democracy – Collateral Damage?
Democracy: a casualty of war?
Has war finished Democracy?
I don’t think we came to a conclusion on this!

Funding: possibilities
NSW Registered Clubs have to support local orgs – Frennie to follow up
Trivia Night – Mike H
Walk Against War Coalition – apply for the $500 per group
Mosman Council – Sue to follow up with Denise Wilton
FUNdraising Party for Peace – Lyn to come back with ideas.

All actions to be reported back at reconvened meeting at 8 Bay Street 2088 7-9pm Sunday 20 July.

Third meeting 20/7/3

Present:
Mosman: Sue Roffey, David Roffey, Lyn Macpherson, Tina Jackson, Serena Carmel, Frennie Beytagh, Lindsay Wood
Pennant Hills: Mike Hartnell
Manly: Mario Paletto, Ron Gravolin
Pittwater: Susy Benson, Beth Jessup, Alanna Hardman, Jim Wilks

Apologies: Brendan Doyle, Andrew McNaughton


Name: agreed to call ourselves North Shore Peace and Democracy

Proposed Discussion Forum:
Venue: Serena still pursuing Independent Theatre (N Sydney) and Docherty Centre (Chatswood). Agreed Independent would probably be best if could be got cheaper than the $810 currently quoting: agreed Serena should book if can be got down to $400 eg if running bar before and after and making profits on that.

People:
Peter Garratt interested in concept but not available around that date - maybe if we do another one
Carmen Lawrence still interested but needs to check with her appointments secretary
Julia Gillard had been e-mailed by Mike [has subsequently replied expressing interest]
Tom Kenneally: wants written request explaining proposal: David to draft and send to Alanna/Susy
Correction to last minutes: Beth not Tina to contact Wendy Bacon.
Robyn Kirk had volunteered to contact Natasha S-D
Several other possible names suggested - Pat O'Shane, Hugh Mackay - agreed to leave further contacts until clear on state of existing ones.

ABC: have been back in contact with Mike expressing enthusiastic interest. WIll be back in touch with more detail next week.

Questions / forum title: Everyone tasked to come back next time with possible questions for discussion and possible them/title for publicity.

Fundraising:
Trivia Night: to be held soonish. Tickets not including food. Aim for 100-ish people. Mike H to ssek venue / date.
Party: Lyn has talked to events manager about possibilities. Agreed that we hadn't got this tied down enough on what we would do / he could do what / how big an event. Lyn and David to meet events people to discuss and report back. Could possibly be major event with wider involvement of other groups.
Pirates of Penzance: Serena to arrange group trip with profit on ticket vs group price as fundraiser
Other ideas from last time still being followed up.
Walk Against War Coalition: explained that a motion has been put to wind up the Coalition and divide its assets between the Socialist Alliance and the new Peace and Justice Coalition. In the circumstances, not really possible to get them to provide funds.

Next meeting: August 3rd, 7.30pm, 8 Bay Street, Mosman

Fourth meeting 3/8/3

Present:Sue Roffey, Frennie Beytagh, Emma Marshall, Liliane Leroy, Susy Benson, Jim Wilks, Lindsay Wood, Brendan Doyle, Serena Carmel, Vacy Vlazna, Mario Paletto, Lyn Macpherson
Apologies: David Roffey, Mike Hartnell, Beth Jessup, Allana Hardman, Tina Jackson

Fundraising
Trivia Night: Friday 22/8, 7.30 at Willoughby Legions Club, Penshurst St, Willoughby
$15 per person entry. Aim for 70 attendees - $900 profit. All present to organize at least 4 people to participate. Sue to confirm details with Mike.

"Pirates of Penzance" fundraising performance: Sat 30/8, Zenith Theatre, Chatswood at 8.00.
Tickets $30, $25 concession, $20 schoolchildren. See Serena at next meeting or ring her on 9904 8486.

Dance Party: Lyn met with professional Events Organizer. Suggestions:
As follow-up to peace marches, possibly annual "Dance for Peace"?
Visual theme, lighting, DJ
Technology Park (Redfern), either outdoors or inside
Requires sponsor and organizing committee
Cheapest total cost est $5000
Revisit this idea after public forum.

Public Forum
Decision by vote for Ensemble Theatre, Kirribilli. North Sydney council, through their Community Development branch, will subsidise rent so that we need pay only $100 (plus cost of barperson if we want bar to be open). Seats 216, sharply raked seating, in-the-round formation. Lighting technician included. 5mins walk from Milsons Point station. Some street parking. Serena to confirm and to enquire whether public liability insurance will be necessary.
Decision by vote to take phone bookings so that we have idea of numbers and won't need to turn people away. Collect entry donations at door with suggested price.
Participants: Carmen Lawrence has not replied - Serena to ask for reply by Friday.
Julia Gillard is available and keen - alternative to Carmen?
Thomas Kenneally - no reply yet; Susy to chase up.
Hugh McKay as alternative? Vacy to send his contact details to Serena.
Paul McGeogh - unlikely to be in Sydney but Jim to contact him.
Other possibilities - Keith Suitor, Mark Davis, Robert Manne, Donna Mulhearn
Subject: Decision by vote "Truth and democracy: casualties of war?"
Questions to panel: email these to David Roffey for consideration next meeting.
Questions from floor: Vacy suggested these be submitted beforehand in writing, named, then selected ones used.

Next Meeting: Sun 17/8 at 7.30 at 8 Bay St

Fifth meeting 17/8/3

Present: Sue Roffey, Frennie Beytagh, Emma Marshall, David Roffey, Mike Hartnell, Jim Wilks, Lindsay Wood, Brendan Doyle, Serena Carmel, Lyn Macpherson
Apologies: Susy Benson, Tina Jackson, Vacy Vlazna, Mario Paletto

Venue: Ensemble Theatre booked, and North Sydney Community Services have agreed to pay the hire cost!! Will have to get Public Liability insurance, but this is proving difficult to find appropriate cover. ACTION: check with other organisations what they do: Frennie, Jim, David

People: no further confirmations: agreed to wait till next meeting to hope for confirmations from Carmen Lawrence and Thomas Kenneally, and if not confirmed by then, accept Julia Gillard and another.

ABC: Mike's contact had referred us on to Kirsten Garrett of Background Briefing. David to recontact to check on progress.

Chairperson: looks like ABC will not want to arrange, so we need to get a good chair. After discussion, agreed to contact some possibilities: Maxine McKew (Mike), Richard Glover (Mike), Wendy McCarthy (Frennie), Tony Jones (Lindsay).

Transcript: agreed that we should arrange our own recording of the session and publish a complete transcript on the website.

Bookings: agreed that we now have enough detail to seek pre-bookings from members of our various groups, so that we have some idea of how many places might remain available for others. David reported that the CFMEU had been in touch asking for details so that they could publicise to their members.

Fundraising: Trivia night 22/8: people present identified 18-20 possible attendees: will hope for much more on the night.
Pirates of Penzance 30/8: lots of people coming, Serena hopes will make about $200.
NSW Clubs: we do not qualify for Class 1 funding, and would need to be incorporated to apply: Jim explained what incorporation would entail (including full annual public liability cover at cost of $2-3000pa), and we agreed not to pursue this.

Walk Against War Coalition/Peace and Justice Coalition: David explained the background to the motion at tomorrow night's WAWC meeting to effectively wind up the Coalition and transfer its assets to the Socialist Alliance and the new Sydney Peace and Justice Coalition. The key disagreements between the two sides are over the conduct of the Books not Bombs second demonstration (and whether or not such a situation might be repeated) and over the issue of whether the UN should now step in to sort out the mess in Iraq. Agreed unanimously to sign up to the Peace and Justice Coalition.

DONM: 31 August, 7.30pm at 8 Bay St.

Sixth meeting 31/8/3

Present: Susy Benson, Tina Jackson, Sue Roffey, Frennie Beytagh, David Roffey, Mike Hartnell, Jim Wilks, Brendan Doyle, Serena Carmel, Lyn Macpherson, Mario Paletto

Apologies: Lindsay Wood, Emma Marshall, Vacy Vlazna

20 October Meeting: People: Carmen Lawrence now confirmed, which means cannot also have Julia Gillard - Mike to let her know with fulsome apologies. Brendan had contacted Hugh Mackay, Wendy Bacon and Sister Susan Connolly - all interested but committed elsewhere. Had not contacted Fiona Stanley as is based in W.A. Other suggestions: Anne Deveson, Donna Mulhearn: Mike to contact.
Chair: Mike had contacted Maxine McKew (unavailable - in Melbourne that night) and Lindsay had contacted Tony Jones (no reply). Mike to contact Genia McCaffery.

Venue: Big issue of public liability insurance at Ensemble: minimum $1300 +GST + Stamp Duty for a one-off event. The main alternative is the Fred Hutley Hall, where North Sydney Council will let to us free and would require less than $100 as contribution to their PLI. Decided to go with that if still available (it is).

Fundraising: Trivia night raised $193, Pirates of Penzance raised $220: well done Mike and Serena, and thanks to those who came to one or both.

Sydney Peace & Justice Coalition: spent $50 of that subscribing for the wider group! Agreed to vote for the winding up of the Walk Against the War Coalition.

Questions: Distributed list of questions sent in so far. Everyone to e-mail in any additions, then Sue to pull together into list and redraft some as more open questions, and redistribute full list by e-mail before next meeting.

Publicity: When venue is fixed, we need to start talking at least to the local papers. Will discuss next time.

Next meeting: Sunday 14 September 7:30pm at 8 Bay Street.

Seventh meeting 14/9/3

Present: Jim Wilks, Nada Al-Obaidy, Brendan Doyle, Mario Paletto, Mike Hartnell, Andrew MacNaughton, Sue Roffey, Frennie Beytagh, David Roffey, Serena Carmel, Lyn Macpherson.

Apologies: Lindsay Wood, Susy Benson, Emma Marshall, Tina Jackson, Vacy Vlazna

20 October Meeting: People: Anne Deveson was not available. Mike has been able to confirm attendance of Donna Mulhearn as 4th speaker and Genia McCaffery as chair. David has informed Tony Abbott and Tina has informed Peter Macdonald of up-to-date names, venue, etc: David to copy those notes to Serena and Mike to pass on to Carmen Lawrence and Donna Mulhearn respectively. Frennie has arranged for Susan Moylan-Coombs to do the Welcome to Country. We need to meet with Genia to discuss format, etc.

Venue: There are several different views as to the maximum no the hall holds: Serena to check on visit to North Sydney Council tomorrow, and also will pay the $76 public liability insurance charge.

Media/Publicity: Kirsten Garrett had turned down chance of recording the event for broadcast on Background Briefing. David contacted Philip Adams, who responded wishing us well, but clarifying that Late Night Live only broadcasts discussions arranged by them and chaired by him. He did, however, finish with “ This time we'll have to pass”, which maybe holds out a possibility for a future event? (we briefly talked about a second forum being around the media and their coverage of the issues)

We discussed who we needed to contact to get pre-publicity and coverage: nada has contacts with SBS Arabic radio and two local Arabic papers. Need to contact Manly Daily and Mosman Daily/North Shore Times. Also need to get city/state/nationwide coverage form likes of SMH, Australian, Telegraph and the wire services (AAP/AFP/Reuters). Brendan and Sue to draft press release. Frennie to check with ANTAR on good contacts to address the release to: any others to feed input to Frennie (eg Andrew from Timor group, Emma from Aidwatch).

North Sydney Council asked for 60 A5 and 10 A4 leaflets for the library and various noticeboards. David had produced draft – will circulate in separate e-mail for any comments / suggestions. Serena took draft to show to NSC.

Ticket Allocation: Including 4 each for speakers and an allocation for journalists, we have around 70 tickets booked already. David had printed 120 numbered tickets as start. (Cost of ticket stock $45 per 200). Agreed to give 8 tickets each to those present to distribute among activists in their groups: [reminder, please keep a note of who has each numbered ticket, so that we can cross-check on night if people say they have lost/not brought theirs]. North Sydney Council had also asked for 6 tickets.

Questions: We had a lengthy discussion on questions. It is likely that the panel will only get through 5 or 6 questions in any depth on the night, so we need to choose those carefully. We agreed that we wanted to definitely cover several different areas of questioning: how we got to this point, who defines terrorism, accountability (where are the WMD?), democracy, and what comes next. We made some moves toward agreeing the questions, but need to meet again soon to finalise those. David to re-issue the existing draft questions under these headings. We also agreed to publish background material relevant to the questions on this site.

Next meeting: to discuss questions and format: next Sunday 21 September, 8 Bay Street, Mosman

Eighth meeting 14/9/3

Present: Jim Wilks, Nada Al-Obaidy, Brendan Doyle, Andrew MacNaughton, Sue Roffey, David Roffey, Serena Carmel, Lyn Macpherson, Alanna Hardman.

Apologies: Lindsay Wood, Susy Benson, Emma Marshall, Tina Jackson, Mario Paletto, Mike Hartnell,

Background briefing: Andrew had circulated. Is now on this site. Agreed to have edited version available at the Forum.

Venue: Now booked. Seating capacity is 220 chairs. Need to check on 1) is it possible to put in a platform so speakers are more visible sitting at table in front; 2) need at least three mic.s for the table plus a radio mike for the audience; 3) format for leaflets / posters for N. Sydney Council to distribute.

Ticket allocation: we now have 187 bookings for the 220 tickets: reminder please for people to let David know who in the local groups has tickets as we may have double-counted some people who have e-mailed bookings but got tickets direct from committee members.

Questions: agreed on six key questions to be asked of the panel.

Next meeting: Sunday 5 October, 8 Bay Street: finalise format for night, agree responsibilities for media contacts, agree responsibilities for event management on the night.

Ninth meeting 5/10/3

Present: Brendan Doyle, Sue Roffey, David Roffey, Tina Jackson, Mario Paletto, Frennie Beytagh, Vacy Vlazna

Apologies: Lindsay Wood, Susy Benson, Emma Marshall, Andrew McNaughton, Serena Carmel, Lyn Macpherson, Jim Wilks,

Publicity: N Sydney Council Communications Director had contacted re publicity & whether should keep low level to avoid disappointment on night. Agreed we need to make sure public know about the event, even if only 30 or so more tickets available. Brendan circulated draft press release for local press. Will make a few small amendments suggested at meeting then get to Mosman Daily, North Shore Times, Manly Daily by Tuesday. Send release on to Pittwater / Pennant Hills / Ku-ring-gai for their local papers.

National press and broadcast media: Frennie had got contact list from ANTAR, and Emma similar from Aidwatch. David has edited that to remove out-of-state and minority publications, plus drafted more “eye-grabbing” version of Brendan’s release for this circulation. Will bcc Brendan, Andrew, Frennie when sending, so all know who has received it.

Running the meeting:
Doorkeepers/ticket checkers: Tina, Frennie
Donation collectors: Vacy, Mario
Looking after panellists: Sue, Brendan
Handheld mike: Lyn (volunteered in her absence!)
Recording / PA: Jim W, David, Emma (NB Tina has PA person contact if we need more expert advice)
Leaflets (Andrew’s background stuff): David to edit to 2*A4 sides (A5 when folded). Brendan/Vacy to get sufficient copies for one on each seat. (NB – post meeting thought – also will need 220 copies of questions).

Format of discussion: we talked about various possibilities and decided on:
7:30 sharp Welcome to Country, then welcome by Genia on behalf of NSyd Council.
Main Q’s: Genia reads out question: puts to panellists in turn plus possible comebacks on what others have said, asks named questioner for their thoughts on replies – 15mins per Q => about 3-4 mins per panellist.
Last 20 mins: invite 2 or 3 further (brief) questions from floor for panel.
Outtro: Sue thanks panellists, Genia, NSyd Council, etc and reminds people of ongoing existence of this group, potential future forums.

Sue to contact Genia to discuss format etc.

Tickets: reminder: please let David know who you have given tickets too – we have been able to make a few more available because people have tickets who had booked separately, and wish to cross-check the numbers.

Notice of Questions etc: David to e-mail panellists with questions, final format, check on whether they will need their ticket allocation.

Next meetings: Next two Sundays (12 and 19 Oct) 7:30pm at 8 Bay Street – hopefully short meetings just to tidy up details (and maybe to start thinking about what next)

Tenth meeting 12/10/3

Present: Sue Roffey, David Roffey, Tina Jackson, Mario Paletto, Frennie Beytagh, Andrew McNaughton, Serena Carmel, Lyn Macpherson, Mike Hartnell

Apologies: Brendan Doyle, Vacy Vlazna, Lindsay Wood, Jim Wilks, Alanna Hardman

People: Carmen Lawrence has had to pull out for personal reasons, and has arranged for Tanya Plibersek to replace her.

Tickets: Have been fully booked - appealed to all people to return spare tickets & have got enough back to keep taking bookings for a few more days.

Publicity: Mosman Daily out meeting in news section (p.11) plus have doen interview with Sue + picture for article in next week's issue. Sydney Weekly interviewed Sue and Donna Mulhearn + picture of group members with Donna and Peter Macdonald. Had further contacts with ABC. SBS news likely to cover the forum. Margot Kingston from SMH will be coming.

Questions: re-arrange order slightly: Q3.WMD (Mike); Q2.Terrorism (Jim); Q4.Democracy (Tina); Q1.History (Andrew); Q5.Future (Alanna); Q6.Media (Lyn).

Background leaflet: Andrew had some further changes (including suggestions from Noam Chomsky, who he'd asked for comment / cross-check of facts).

Arrangements: Sue, Mike, David to meet with Genia on Thursday to discuss meeting format. Need to check PA arrangements. Need tea/coffee/food for presenters on arrival. Water, tablecloth, flowers on table. Nametags for our people and nameplates for speakers. Reserved signs for some front seats for scientists. Banner for front of table.

Next meetings: Sunday 19th October, 7.30pm. (PS - remember 2pm Bushwacked Prince Alfred Park)

Eleventh meeting 19/10/3

Present: Sue Roffey, David Roffey, Tina Jackson, Brendan Doyle, Jim Wilks, Alanna Hardman, Frennie Beytagh, Serena Carmel, Lyn Macpherson, Mike Hartnell

Apologies: Vacy Vlazna, Lindsay Wood, Mario Paletto, Andrew McNaughton, Susy Benson

Arrangements: Final arrangements for who does what on the night reviewed. Mike, Sue and David had met Genia to discuss, and set out running script.

Publicity: pre-event coverage in Mosman Daily, Sydney Weekly Courier, smh.com.au (Web Diary) and Sun-Herald. Some confusion over what happened with Manly Daily: Brendan confirmed the had press release on Labor Day, but appear to have lost it.

Questions: discussion on what ground we hope the speakers will cover, and cross-check who will ask which question. John Valder will ask question 5.

Next meeting: Picnic, debrief and celebration 2pm Sunday 26th at Rosherville Reserve. Will set up meeting for late November to discuss where we go next.

Accounts:

© NSPD 2003. Last modified 2/2/4.